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Dinich on CFP size - ‘I haven’t run into anyone who’s wishy washy on 12’ | The Paul Finebaum Show 

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Heather Dinich joins The Paul Finebaum Show to give the latest on the meetings surrounding the College Football Playoff expansion.
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Gopher Fan
Gopher Fan Oy oldin
Yes, we should bring teams from the south to the north in some of these playoff games when they’ve earned home field advantage. Limiting the unofficial home games that have been in place for too long for the SEC, ACC, and Big 12. Can’t wait to see these southern teams come up and play in the cold.
Gopher Fan
Gopher Fan 13 kun oldin
@Kev I completely agree! They’ve pretty much had home field advantage. They’re too scared of weather. Can’t stand a slight chill in the air.
Kev
Kev 13 kun oldin
I am sick of always traveling 100s and 1000s of mile to play against the PAC 12 and SEC. The B1G would have a winning record against the SEC if we actually played neutral site I believe.
Original Bluej
That's alright ✅
Judah Alexander
12 team playoff is the best thing to EVER happen to cfb point! blank! period! People who disagree have the same logic as the people 60yrs ago who said black players where to dumb,unskilled & slow to play the sport ! FINALLY cfb has a true playoff system!!!
Christopher Foote
It doesn't make it any easier and brackets still prioritize P-5 by selection. It doesn't matter if they say we are only admitting the top four champions. That's not my objection. Assuming they want to include champions, they ought to admit every champion to make it work. At least that's my opinion.
Jason Grapenthin
ESPN should not have all the games for a 12-team playoff. FOX should probably get some games, even if for the first round since they cover a lot of Big 12, Big Ten, and PAC-12 games already.
anondescriptobserver
Yeah, I don't trust the administration of this playoff with only one TV partner. ESPN will still get what it asks for.
Texas Made
Texas Made Oy oldin
12 is too many I think 6 is the magic number
Travis Winkler
Everyone gets a 🏆 will be the next step.
Judah Alexander
Uuum I’m pretty sure that’s the way cfb is as of now with 40 bowl games!! Smh tf
Oscar Evans
Oscar Evans Oy oldin
All l know is Alabama is about to repeat and have a good chance to 3 peat. Remember l told you. This will really push for others to want to expand. Roll Tide Roll!
Markovisch
Markovisch Oy oldin
In recent years, all the top talents went to the same schools since they can market playoffs to them. No wonder you keep seeing the same teams. Hopefully expansion spreads the talent better and gives more teams a chance to reach the nattie.
Christopher Foote
@litedawg1968 I simply need to ask how many necessarily must be represented to make it fair? I outlined a way to make it fairer. If it's simply about a conference championship why not admit EVERY conference champion? Instead of six? And if it's six why not leave it at six? Why not cap it at that level?
litedawg1968
litedawg1968 Oy oldin
Nope. Even the players know that many of the teams have zero chance of making the NCG.
aaron short
aaron short Oy oldin
They all have the same chance, parity in scholarships, you've got to recruit and win like BAMA, everyone is given the same chance, look at Clemson, they were mediocre, now They're a powerhouse, and some historically dynasty teams have fallen off, USC, Oklahoma, Nebraska Miami etc, Oklahoma is still relevant tho, I know my team is great ROLL TIDE ROLL
Jason Ratcliff
This is about making sure All power5 conf Champs have shot @ natty, and giving A TRUE PATH for Group5's to actually play for the same rewards(instead of the unrealistic path now that supposedly gives that path)+not 2 mention making sure strong independent(notre dame) has shot to play for natty with
Heath Hinton
Heath Hinton Oy oldin
@Christopher Foote No they are so far apart it is like the Grand Canyon. Sam Houston couldn't make a run to win the FBS National Championship. That isnnot opinion, that is fact. Alabama is a team that is recruited of top talent in the nation. All of them are 4 or 5 stars. FCS teams are made up of mostly 1 maybe a few 2 stars and no they can't make that difference up with hard work. Alabama and most if not all FBS schools are bigger, faster, and stronger athletes who have better facilities, weight programs, and it is not even close. There is a great divide. Heck FCS teams play FBS teams to make money for athletics because that is the biggest payday they will see all season. It is also an easy tune-up game for the FBS schools. FCS has their national championship and yo take that away because you think that it is fair for FCS schools. You can't be serious with this, no way.
Christopher Foote
@Heath Hinton All I'm trying to do (since you asked) is to level the playing field. Nothing more, nothing less. It isn't anything to be afraid of. FCS is already designated Division I. All I'm doing is putting added emphasis on what's already SOP. I'm not trying to turn over the apple cart. You (I think) were the one recommending that we take what's already in place and expand upon it. Honestly it would be ridiculous to pretend there aren't any respectable FCS teams. I'm not suggesting there is a litany but there are a few. It doesn't take a village to raise a child in every circumstance. I think it's time to use what I've pretty much proven works and take it to the back.
Christopher Foote
@Heath Hinton I think I said they could pose a challenge. Which they could. It really isn't up to me to set the terms You were partly correct. There is a large expanse between where Alabama is and where Sam Houston State needs to be. So what? It isn't exactly the Grave Canyon. I'll admit there needs to be things done before it ought to happen. I think you mistake my suggestion of compatibility as some kind of concession. There IS comparability. Sam Houston State probably CAN make a title run. That's not the same thing as suggesting they've already got it won. Far from it. I simply believe that if we are looking to select a true legitimate national champion it probably ought to include an FCS. Otherwise it's simply someone's opinion. Wasn't it you who recommended opinion be removed? Well suggesting that Sam Houston State is capable of claiming a share of the championship seems to me to be a matter of opinion. One I particularly fund difficult to accept. Honestly I think they are closer than you might think. Maybe that's not a comfortable though. But it rings true
Heath Hinton
Heath Hinton Oy oldin
@Christopher Foote Also, you have absolutely zero ground to stand on when you said that Sam Houston State would give Alabama a competitive game. If you think that then I got some water 🎿 made of paper to sell to you.
Heath Hinton
Heath Hinton Oy oldin
@Christopher Foote you are the only person I have ever heard that thinks uniting a FCS and FBS playoff is what should be done. Is this just some fairness idea. Do you know anything about football? This has been one of the funniest 🤣 ideas I have ever heard. You keep mentioning fairness, why is it fair to force teams who have smaller budgets, smaller scholarship numbers, smaller fanbases, stadiums, revenue, etc. to play schools with twice what they have. This is some participation trophy stuff right here, lol..... Don't you think if what you are saying is true the FCS would be upset?? No, because they want their championship retained, not made a mockery of, jeesh
Terrance Mckinnon
Watering it down by adding 8 more teams! Now you can have a 3 or 4 lost team making the playoffs!
Christopher Foote
Not if two losses removes a team from the championship it won't. One unintended consequence of expanding to four (relative to the title) was limiting access to teams with multiple losses. Two losses ought to ordinarily remove a team from consideration. P-5 designation. G-5 don't play to the same measure of a championship. One loss ought to eliminate a G-5. Ultimately the field (four teams) is predetermined by results. If they (CFP personnel) simply positioned the bracket (four teams, post-season) outside of the bowls, that would limit access by consequence. For example. In 2014 by that measure only four teams advance. Oregon, Ohio State, Texas Christian and Florida State. Why? None of those teams have two losses. Simple. No committee necessary. In 2017 a similar problem arises. Put the bracket AFTER bowl pairings. Who qualifies? Alabama, Georgia, Wisconsin and UCF. Oklahoma (for all intents and purposes) is eliminated. But that it went to overtime kind of makes it tricky since double elimination isn't about overtime, ordinarily. F.W.I.W.
Christopher Foote
@David C Yeah 130 teams and a twelve team playoff is about 1/10 representation. I think we can both agree that's insufficient. But for different reasons I'm guessing. I would (if I could) trim it down further. Six I think is sufficient. By the way that's about where the division falls within the superstructure of the championship. Beyond six is extraneous. And unnecessary. I think six ought to be used and should be adequate to the cause. Twelve admits too many stragglers. I would limit access to six. That's where I would draw the line.
David C
David C Oy oldin
130 teams and a 12 team playoff...yeah that's really watered down. If there is going to be a playoff make it a real playoff, not a 4 team invitational tournament.
Christopher Foote
A proper rendering of the BCS selects Ohio State and Alabama. It's the one I'm supporting. Meaning we can cut through the malarkey. To the championship. Get down to brass tacks. I think that's the right approach. Notwithstanding everything else. Remove any vestiges of a playoff. Use the BCS.
LAY THE FOUNDATION
Edit: I do not care about your opinion if it disagrees with mine especially since it's the internet where civil doesn't exist, I shared mine and I'll catch anyone crying at the club as I'm watching the newly added playoff games 70% of playoff spots go to the same 4 schools year after year. 12 is fun, 2016-2018 Washington teams are looked at differently having made the playoffs 3 straight years with this format. I'll watch this but I refuse to watch bs bowl games I also don't think it ruins as many games as you think, how many times do we see Bama, OSU, Oklahoma & Clemson lose in a massive upset and still get in? The 4 team playoff only hurts the Georgia's of the world in those losses because they still gotta beat Bama It also makes for example 11 Miami @ 17 Louisville a more interesting game with potential playoff implications
Christopher Foote
@thepac12andbig10suck I'm still confused. Utah was recognized not that long ago as a legitimate national champion. For that season. In the BCS (the metric that excluded them from the title game, but admitted them to the Sugar Bowl) they won the computer poll. Outright. They share a BCS title. 1/3 effectively. They claim in 2008-09. That's enough to make them a co-champion. Florida shares it. Simply because they have the hardware doesn't in itself remove Utah. Utah claims a share of that NC. Admittedly it took time to reconcile it but they are a co-champion. What's wrong with that? Are they complaining? I doubt it. Florida wasn't the only BCS champion. It could be argued in 2006 although admittedly isn't part of the dynamic, Boise St won a NC. There are (or were) five bowls includes within the BCS methodology. You might think it restricted access but the reality was as many as ten teams shared in it. Yes one game gave exclusive recognition. To the championship. But that wasn't that unusual, really. Occasionally the Associated Press selected a unique champion. Associated Press actually selected a championship independent to the BCS. Maybe not initially. Eventually. After 2004 (Auburn wasn't selected) they parted ways. Two selectors (CNN/USA Today, Associated Press) independently chose a championship. No Utah didn't claim one of those. So Florida is recognized as the 'most deserving'. We can discuss any year you want. Ordinarily there is strong agreement within the polling metric. Explain how a playoff would remedy that? Utah wasn't admitted because they weren't ranked sufficiently high. Whose fault is that? Boise St was fortunate to be ranked sufficiently to be represented to the BCS. Texas Christian wasn't admitted because Texas was undefeated. In the Big XII. At some point you're going to have to admit the BCS was pretty fab.
thepac12andbig10suck
​@Christopher Foote And thats my point exactly. A conference champion let alone an undefeated team shouldn't be left out on the basis of subjectivity and a scant championship format. We don't know who would win or not. "Claiming" championships is bogus as well. There is no reason to have co-champions in any team sport. A real playoff would eliminate title claims and give a more clearcut champion objectively. Saying that a top G5 team couldn't beat a top notch P5 team is pure conjecture. SOS and perception of conferences is subjective and isn't always a accurate indicator of how good an individual team is. Otherwise G5's wouldn't be 9-6 vs P5s in BCS/NY6 games. But like the Poll Era, the BCS was flawed in structure as well. Again, what other level of any sport can you go undefeated and still not get the chance to play for an outright title?
Christopher Foote
I didn't give you the prospectus I feel addresses every problem you pose? At some point I think most would agree that a championship necessarily is determined by beating the best teams available. Utah only beat Alabama. That's insufficient to claim a championship. Florida only advanced. Potentially we could pair Utah and Florida but I'm also pragmatist. Utah wasn't any better than Florida. They're co-champions. Utah claims a share of the national championship. They share it with Florida. They're co-champions. Fact.
Christopher Foote
@thepac12andbig10suck Utah was in the Mountain West Conference. That's not as difficult road to tow to a title game. You can say they were denied something but they actually won a part of that season's championship. I remember it was Florida and Oklahoma. Florida won (obviously). That season. But Alabama also went 12-0. Florida took them in the SEC Championship. Won it outright. That means the BEST Utah can do is tie. The other thing is Florida's loss was sketchy. Ole Miss. Florida lost to Auburn in 2006. They still needed to claim an SEC title to advance (against Arkansas, coached by Houston Nutt). Boise St obviously wasn't admitted, that season, either. At some point you need to admit G-5 teams simply don't quite measure up. I think that's fairly self-evident.
thepac12andbig10suck
@Christopher Foote That's not enough because a 13-0 team doesn't deserve to be left out of any championship system. A true competitor is not going to go for that. I'd be livid if i played for Utah and didn't get the opportunity. Like i said, name any other sport where you can go undefeated and still get left out of playing in a playoff or championship. You can't do it because there's no other sport with an absurd postseason like FBS Football. Utah was shut out of the natty as an undefeated team. Meanwhile 2 1-loss teams played for a title.
Brian Mohney
Brian Mohney Oy oldin
I like the idea of more football games but there will be less meaningful
Helmsson
Helmsson Oy oldin
The fact that G5 teams can’t compete with bama, clemson, osu, etc isn’t an issue with the playoff being expanded, it’s an issue with the best teams being the best teams. Everyone wanted to give teams like costal a chance and here it is. So now really isn’t the time to be upset that x team will get creamed by a championship caliber team. At the end of the day, if you can’t take out the #1 seed then why are you in the playoffs to begin with?
Christopher Foote
@Zack Yablok So why include twelve if six is adequate?
Zack Yablok
Zack Yablok Oy oldin
@Christopher Foote yeah I agree six is good and conference champions I think would make conference and regular season still extremely important and rank those teams after that based on how good they are
Christopher Foote
@Zack Yablok Ok. Let's start there. I don't necessarily agree we need additional games to get the title game correct. But that's maybe simply my opinion. There are something like 129 teams in FBS. That's about the right measure to which we can construct a playoff. Is it o.k. I draw a parallel to the N.F.L? Thirty-two teams are represented in divisions of four teams. 32/4 = 8. That's sixteen teams comparitively. I know how to gain the required number. It's not terribly hard to do. 128 / 8 = 16. Meaning we can pretty much ditto what the N.F.L. has in place. Without any difficulty. Which would in fact admit eight teams. All conference champions. That's a relatively simple proposition. But how effective is it? Particularly if we know some conferences are superior to others. It seems reasonable to assume (ordinarily) the SEC champion will be admitted. The Big Ten, ordinarily. The Big XII, quite possibly. And the Pacific 12 Conference champion. Maybe the Atlantic Coast Conference. So only about five conferences. Unless you're suggesting six I see little reason to expand beyond that tally. Six works.
Zack Yablok
Zack Yablok Oy oldin
@Christopher Foote I agree with you more teams isn’t necessarily better cause you might get even worse games who really wants to watch coastal vs bama that’s a inevitable blowout. People want it now because they don’t understand the greatness that the historic teams the last 3 years have done. I think if these teams the next couple years actually make interesting and enjoyable games for fans that aren’t from those 3 teams people will start to like it again.
Zack Yablok
Zack Yablok Oy oldin
@Christopher Foote the problem with the same teams at the top is it makes the sport boring for everyone besides those 3 and I’m saying that as an Ohio state fan. Having those teams although unlikely can make the game somewhat exciting even though I agree with you there’s only ever 2-4 elite teams every year including in the BCS era so the system is fine right now. The only problem is it’s the same teams which is not very exciting anymore leading to drops in views. Now unlike you and me some people won’t watch the games until it’s more exciting. Also paying players without expanding makes parity even worse because those teams have the most money and fans so players will make the most money if they go there and teams can pitch that. That’s kinda the reason expansion is needed for parity and money for the NCAA there’s no other reason. I think 12 is really stupid it should still be exclusive so you really feel it’s the best of the best playing so they should first try 6 and go from there.
Antonio Russell
Heather hates Bama.
Daniel Aaron
Daniel Aaron Oy oldin
Just curious about something. You're a projected 1st or 2nd round draft pick. You're on a team at the 11th or 12th seed starring at a 1 seed like Alabama stacked with NFL talent. Your team is almost certainly going to get waxed by Bama. Why Wouldn't you opt out of that game?
Derek Shirley
Derek Shirley Oy oldin
Their was a time when any first or second round pic would have their commitment questioned for skipping any game for any reason other than injury. And his stock would drop significantly. Need to reinstate that attitude. Make it cost the players hundreds of thousands and their reputation.
Helmsson
Helmsson Oy oldin
Your entire team getting demolished by Bama doesn’t take away from your accomplishments and displayed ability before or during the game against bama. Scouts know better than to rule a pick out that easily
Hoosier James
Hoosier James Oy oldin
Can’t wait to see a G5 team get crushed by Bama
Brian
Brian Oy oldin
@Harry Larkin I agree to an extent although it’s likely not 99.9% as you still have teams like (and I’m going to exclude Boise State for what should be obvious reasons) App State, BYU, UAB, Buffalo, Miami OH*, Ohio, NIU, Louisiana, Air Force, Fresno State, San Diego State (This program in the early 2000s was no joke even outside of Big Ben era)
Jamie Crawford
Hatton, Iowa in Iowa Citt and Iowa State in Ames. Plenty of G5 could beat mid to lower class big 10, big 12 and ACC
Jamie Crawford
@Harry Larkin highly doubtful. North Dakota State beat Kansas State in Man
Harry Larkin
Harry Larkin Oy oldin
​@Brian Ok I admit those are good examples. But if you have 63 teams, then some are bound to be great. But that being said, the difference between the top teams and second and third is huge. I would say if you took out AAC, then 99.9 percent of the G5 would still lose to middle of the pack sec teams.
Brian
Brian Oy oldin
@Harry Larkin Cincinnati was pretty decent but they pale in comparison to G5 teams in the 2000s. 2003 Miami Ohio 12-1 with Ben Roelisberger 2004 Utah 12-0 with Alex Smith - beat 5 P5 teams - Beat the Big East Champ 35-7 - Nobody came within 14 points of them all season - 25.4 margin of victory 2006 Boise State - Beat B12 Champion Oklahoma with Adrian Peterson - 26.2 margin of victory 2008 Utah 13-0 (regarded as the 3rd best G5 team) - Beat #3 Alabama, #7 TCU, #16 BYU, #24 Michigan - 16.4 margin of victory - Only undefeated team - Ranked #1 by 3 BCS polls 2008 Boise State 12-1 - beat #8 Oregon (Pac10 Champ) - 24.2 margin of victory 2009 Boise State 14-0 - Beat #4 TCU, #7 Oregon (Pac10 Champ) - 26.8 margin of victory Held Oregon to their worst offensive production in Chip Kelley’s entire career. Didn’t allow Oregon a first down for 3 quarters. They beat them 26-8 with 4 turnovers by BSU. 2009 TCU 12-1 - beat #12 BYU, #18 Utah, #20 Clemson - 23.4 margin of victory 2010 TCU 13-0 (regarded as the #2 Best G5 team) - Beat #4 Wisconsin (B10 Champ), #6 Utah, #17 BYU, #24 Oregon State - #8 total offense, #1 Total defense - 30.4 margin of victory - Ranked #1 by Congrove Beat #6 Utah 47-7 on the road 2010 Boise State 13-1 (Best G5 of all time) - Beat #6 Utah, #13 Virginia Tech (ACC Champ), #18 Hawaii, #24 Oregon State - #2 total offense, #2 total defense - 32.5 margin of victory - Statistically regarded as the best team in 2010 ranked #1 by SP+, SRS, and Sarkin. - Statistically regarded as the #1 G5 team of all time. Beat #6 Utah 36-3 Beat #18 Hawaii 52-7 Only loss was a choke job at #12 Nevada led by Collin Kapernick. They lost a 21 point lead in the 4th quarter, missed 3 FGs, and lost 31-34 in OT. Nearly the entire Offensive and Defensive lines of TCU and Boise State went drafted into the NFL. TCU also had NFL WR, TE, and an All-Pro QB who still starts in the NFL. Boise State also had a NFL WRs, TE, RB, and QB who still ranks Top 10 All Time in passing yards, passing TDs, Total TDs, Efficency, Comp % and QB rating; heisman finalist and now is an OC for the NFL. So yes Cincinnati was decent but they would get demolished by some of these teams.
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